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aberrant Profile
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Registered: 09-2007
Posts: 2
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Sorry to bother you guys, but how do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


I posted this question at http://com1.runboard.com/bwarhammerquest.f1
and I was hoping to get more feed back on it, thanks.

A single gauntlet gives a single additional attack at -1 to hit but at +1 to Strength. Now -- and this is the part that gets me a little muddled -- if a character wears two gauntlets, he gains three attacks, but are all the attacks at +1 to hit and 4D6 damage? Or just the third bonus attack for having two gauntlets? So your attacks would be:
your normal attack(s)followed by your three gauntlet attacks at:
-1 to hit, +1 strength
-1 to hit, +1 strength
+1 to hit, 4D6 damage
or would all the attacks be:
your normal attack(s)followed by our three gauntlet attacks at:
+1 to hit, 4D6 damage
+1 to hit, 4D6 damage
+1 to hit, 4D6 damage

The -1 to hit, +1 strength attack(s) and/or the +1 to hit, 4D6 damage attack(s) only applies to the three attacks from the gauntlets. Can the gauntlets can be used with weapons? And if they can, I assume the weapons special prosperities -- if any -- don't effect the three attacks granted by the gauntlets.
 
So, for example, if a battle-level three dwarf warrior had two Gauntlets of Damzhar, he would have two normal attacks with his axe and three special attacks with his gauntlets. The damage and that attack bonus from the two gauntlets would not alter his normal attacks with his axe, correct?

Also, do you add your strength to the damage from the gauntlets that do 4D6 damage. And do you add your strength to the -1 to hit , +1 strength attack for having one gauntlet?

Here is the description of the gauntlet(s):
"A Gauntlet of Damzhar gives the wearer +1 Attack at -1 to hit and at +1 to Strength.

If your Warrior wears two gauntlets of Damzhar, their combined power gives
an additional +1 Attack (making a total of +3: 1 for each Gauntlet plus +1 for
their combined attack) at +1 to hit and causing 4D6 damage."
18/Sep/2007, 1:06 pm Link to this post Send Email to aberrant   Send PM to aberrant
 
OldWarrior Profile
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Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
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posticon It is NOT a Bother at All


Welcome to my message board, Aberrant.

I will post what I think is the most likely intended interpretation/usage at the topic you have given above.

I love questions. However, I am afraid that I cannot be too certain of the answer for this one. I might confuse you even more... But, maybe my mental meanderings will help you to notice anything you might have missed in trying to figure out these nifty treasures!

I think you are doing as I have often done: making the description more complicated than it is. I do this in real life at work sometimes. Then again, some of the Warhammer Quest stuff lends itself to complication and confusion. I think Games Workshop did not make it very clear.

One thing that I use to interpret the description is the fact that the Gauntlets of Damzhar is an item listed in the Magic Items and not the Weapons and Armour section of the Dungeon Room Treasures.

If my first interpretation here given were the correct one, I am afraid that the gauntlets would be worth 750 to 1000 or more gold each for sell value.

Here is my understanding (one of two understandings I have, I might add) and I will try to be as clear and simple as I can be:

One Gauntlet of Damzhar

While equipped, it grants +1 to a warrior's attack characteristic -- magically adjusted; -1 to hit (for all the warrior's attacks) and +1 to the warrior's Strength characteristic.

These are adjustments to his characteristics and to his to hit rolls while wearing the gauntlet.

So, the Dwarf mentioned above would have 3 normal attacks, -1 to hit with all three attacks, and +1 strength (total Strength of 4 for damage) for determining damage on all three attacks.

Two Gauntlets of Damzhar

For some reason -- a magical one I am sure, the two working together more than cancel out the negative -1 to hti modifier and add extra benefits all the way around.

While equipped, the two gauntlets together grant +3 to a warrior's attack characteristic; +1 to hit (for all the warrior's attacks) and 4 Damage Dice (instead of a strength modifier).

The 4 Damage Dice are a much better modifier than the +1 Strength -- or even a +3 strength for that matter -- at lower levels.

Here is an example of that BL-3 Dwarf in action with two of these magic items:

He has 2+3 = 5 Attacks; his normal Strength of 3, +1 to hit on all 5 attacks, and rolls 4 Damage Dice and adds his strength (or his adjusted strength from a weapon, Battle Axe for instance adds +2 to Strength for damage).

The Dwarf's Great Axe!

This does not address, however, the Great Axe that the Dwarf has with its extra damage dice. The Great Axe itself adds +1 Damage Dice to every damage roll that the dwarf does. In this case, the combined gauntlets would replace his normal 1 Damage Dice characteristic with 4 Damage Dice. Then his Great Axe would add yet another one.

I recommend rolling the extra damage dice from the Great Axe separately from the others. This way, you will know whether it is possible for the Dwarf to trip on his beard. He would only trip on his beard if he rolls a 1 for the Greeat Axe's extra Damage Dice AND one of the other four dice also came up as a 1.

As for adding doubles together for damage ... again, assuming you are rolling the extra Great Axe Damage Dice separately, if any of the other four dice matches the Great Axe's extra dice, that fifth dice will be added together with the others for damage.

EDIT: I forgot to mention here that the extra Damage Dice from the Great Axe may replace the lowest other Damage Dice rolled, if it doesn't match one of them (making for double 1s, 2s or etc...).

Conclusion: I see that such a dwarf will have a wonderful time of slaying monsters and of tripping on his beard. He would hit more often, get death-blows and big kills more often, AND trip on his beard more often.

So, did I answer the question thoroughly and clearly enough, or did I just complicate it all to pieces? lol
 emoticon

BUT, this first interpretation of the Gauntlets may be way too nice to the warriors!

ALTERNATE INTERPRETATION -- and the one more likely intended I think, but who knows?

What makes me think this is the interpretation/usage intended are the words "+1 for their combined attack", which seem to imply that the attacks are actually done by the gauntlets.

Note: this is probably the reason I played it this way most of the time in my solo games.

The Gauntlets actually are treated separately from the other normal attacks a warrior has.

So, forgetting about the warriors normal attacks, let us just concentrate upon the gauntlets themselves. We are basically treating them as a weapon(s) that magically provide and addition attack (or 3 attacks in the case of two).

One gauntlet provides 1 Attack at -1 to hit and +1 Strength. The Dwarf above would do the gauntlet attack before OR after his normal attacks. If he hits a monster he rolls his normal Damage Dice (one in this case) and adds his Strength +1 from the gauntlet for damage.

Two gauntlets provide 3 Attacks at +1 to hit and 4 Damage Dice instead of the strength bonus and instead of his normal 1 Damage Dice characterisitic. So, any gauntlet attacks that hit would do 4 Damage Dice + 3 Strength damage.

EITHER INTERPRETATION

Whichever way a person plays it, I think the Gauntlets are in addition to whatever other weapon the warrior may be using at the same time.

But, if they intended the gauntlets to be used instead of other weapons -- making for some hard choices along the way, then we would certainly have to apply the gauntlets' modifiers to the warrior's characterisitcs. Now, I am confusing myself. lol emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 18/Sep/2007, 7:25 pm


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Old Warrior

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18/Sep/2007, 2:04 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Registered: 04-2006
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Re: Sorry to bother you guys, but how do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


Yes to both questions about adding strength. I think emoticon

But, again, I think it is up for interpretation.

It could very well be intended that the two gaunlets together only do 4D6 damage with no strength added.

Again, I say that they should have made this treasure description more clear.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 18/Sep/2007, 2:56 pm


---
Old Warrior

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God bless you, everyone!
18/Sep/2007, 2:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
aberrant Profile
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Registered: 09-2007
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Re: It is NOT a Bother at All


The Warhammer Quest community is truly lucky to have you, Old Warrior. Thanks so much for your quick and very, very comprehensive answer. Also, I would like to compliment your impressive knowledge of grammar. Everything you said was well organized and -- in my opinion -- well thought out.

I was playing a game with some friends when the player using the dwarf earned his second gauntlet. Considering they were not an objective room item, I said they shouldn't be used with a weapon, and that your gauntleted fists were now your means of attack (like the power fists from Warhammer:40k). But I like your answer.

I completely failed to notice that the gauntlets are not spawned from the weapons list; which, as you said, makes them an item and not a weapon.

We just started playing the Warhammer Fantasy RPG, and I wanted to convert our Warhammer Quest characters to it. If you're familiar with the newest addition of the WFRP, I have many, many questions for you.

Thanks again.

18/Sep/2007, 3:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to aberrant   Send PM to aberrant
 
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Registered: 04-2006
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Re: Sorry to bother you guys, but how do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


Warhammer Quest is the very limit of my "expertise" as it relates to the Warhammer World -- sorry to say. Perhaps, some of the other players here could be of some assistance concerning the WFRP game. You are certainly welcome to field your questions here. My message board doesn't get a lot of use aside from the current games, which have taken over here. emoticon

As for grammar, I had some excellent, systematic training in my five last years of grade-level schooling (8th through the 12th). I really enjoyed it because I could see that there was an organized arrangement that really made sense, following various rules, with exceptions of course -- sort of like Warhammer Quest. emoticon I graduated from those minor responsibilites (grade school/High School) approximately 21 years ago.

Thank you for the nice words. Maybe someone will read them and think more highly of me. hehe emoticon

---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
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God bless you, everyone!
18/Sep/2007, 7:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 5729
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Re: Sorry to bother you guys, but how do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


I find it interesting that I have thought the "most likely intended" interpretation to be one way and then the another way. Man, I have contradicted myself in a way. Really though, I think this shows my own lack of certainty on this treasure item.

I wonder if anyone knows of a Games Workshop explanation of this issue....

---
Old Warrior

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It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
8/Mar/2009, 2:52 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 


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